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30 thoughts on “5 in 6 Men? A Response to Ally Fogg

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  3. William Collins Post authorbuy nolvadex and clomid online

    On 6th Feb 2017 Ally Fogg wrote in a comment on his own blog, “Dude, we went over that across about 300 comments over two blog posts and every single thing I said in the original turned out to be absolutely correct. If you are too wilfully obtuse to understand the problems with Collins’s analysis then that is not my problem. Even he admitted in the end that he couldn’t justify his own data.”(buy nolvadex and clomid online uk)

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    Just a small comment in passing.

    If the genders were reversed and women were even slightly suspected of being discriminated against, there would be an outcry. That outcry would lead to some feminist NGO being given huge amounts of money to ‘investigate’ “the problem” (by this time, it would already not be a mere suspicion).

    (Being a feminist group, they would start from the conclusion (man = bad) and discover what they need to say to prove it, as usual.)

    Instead, it is men discriminated against. There is no Minister For Men, there is no Men’s Interest Group among MPs, and no-one is going to give a grant to a men’s NGO to look into the problem. Instead, hard working, unpaid people like William Collins have to do the best they can as amateurs without a budget and without easy access to the data.

    William, I don’t want to embarass you but you are a hero. Like I feel the need to let Philip Davies MP know that he is supported for speaking out against feminist lies (link via my name), I feel the need to make sure that people like you know that you are appreciated for all your labours. Thank you.

    1. William Collins Post authorbuy aromasin and nolvadex

      Thank you for your kind words. Much appreciated. However, I merely regard it as a moral obligation. For the first 95% of my life I was apathetic and took no interest in politics. I was of the view that politics was no occupation for a gentleman. I think so still, but there is one exception. When one sees one’s society being taken over by totalitarianism it is no longer acceptable to remain unresponsive. It becomes a moral obligation to fight it. Every generation, I suspect, must fight anew for its freedoms – but unfortunately we have forgotten that.

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    Interesting. I notice that even those arguing against you ‘do not dispute that there is gender bias against men at every stage in the criminal justice system’ (Ally Fogg). It is very revealing, given that acknowledgement, that we do not have a comprehensive, professional assessment to determine the truth of the matter.

    Is it 5 in 6, or 3 in 4, or something else? Even if it is only 10% it is still an injustice, but given the feedback loop of how certain factors stack, and the nature of exponential growth, I would be absolutely shocked if the outcome extrapolated out to less than 1 in 2.

    1. William Collins order nolvadex and clomid

      The link I’ve added to the start of the original post, order nolvadex canada, shows an additional analysis in which attention is confined to the (more serious) indictable offences. This produces a factor of 3.6. But it must be recalled that this is only the disparity in sentencing. What I have not explored is any additional disparity in (i) likelihood of arrest, (ii) likelihood of prosecution, and, (iii) likelihood of conviction. USA studies do reveal that there are disparities there too.

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  12. CWPC buy nolvadex online australia

    Thanks for your serious analysis. Criminal justice statistics are complicated. That makes it easily for persons to lose sight of the big picture.

    To see the big picture, we suggest that you consider the sex ratio of persons in prison in England and Wales since 1750. See the graph here:

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    The underlying data are freely available here:

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    The sex ratio of prisoners in the UK today is about 20 men per woman. A historically common sex ratio has been 5 men per woman in prison. That suggests that 3 out of every 4 men in prison are there as a result of systemic anti-men bias.

    We think that 3 out of 4 is better estimate than 5 in 6. Understanding the supporting data for that estimate is also easier. That said, you are certainly correct that anti-men gender bias exists in every stage of the criminal justice funnel.

    We applaud your concern for equal justice under law.

    1. William Collins buy nolvadex online pharmacy

      You might well be right that 3 out of 4 is closer than 5 out of 6, I don’t know. An obvious criticism of your estimate is that it assumes there was no bias historically when the ratio was 5:1, but there may well have been bias even then. But you can equally pick holes in my analysis. As a physicist I value highly being able to do a calculation in two completely independent ways. If they come up with broadly the same answer then you can be sure you’ve got it about right. This is the case here. Your argument based on historical comparison is fully independent from mine based on a snap-shot in time, and yet the estimates of 3-in-4 and 5-in-6 are, as far as I am concerned, much the same (to within the error bars of the analyses). I take that as powerful confirmation of what we are both claiming: that the anti-male (or pro-female) bias in sentencing is not minor but huge. That is the salient fact which I think we can take to be definitively established. And yet, despite that, the likes of the Corston Report and initiatives such as this buy nolvadex online with paypal continue to focus attention solely on female offenders.

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    “20% of paedophiles are women”?

    No. Half. It could be no other figure and this is a hugely important natural scientific fact to grasp: paedophilila is not an act. It is the “target-age” factor of a sexual orientation whereby the person suffers a measure of sexual attraction to prepubescent children; this becomes apparent when the person reaches adolescence, as do all facets of one’s sexual orientation. Hebephilia covers the pubescent age range (variant depending on the individual, of course) and beyond that age…well, who is to say? Humans were considered biologically adult at 13 in England until the late 1800s and 12, believe it or not, until 1929 in Scotland. [Some scientists use the term ephebophile for adults attracted to adolescents, but its generally moot.]

    Paedophilia (the distribution-scale opposite of gerontophilia) is thankfully very, very rare, falling as it does so far outside of the normal human biological imperative. Young children have no intrinsic sexual qualities and cannot breed, hence the need for a name for this paraphilia. It is, and should remain, a scientific term and sufferers offered help. The term was unheard outside of the psychiatric profession until the 1990s that’s simply become a media term (scattered like birdseed at the feet of males) for sexual activity, real or imagined, between under-16s and over-18s in the UK. Clearly, in countries with different legislative rulings, nature somehow changes. How quaint.

    Nonsensical legal fictions aside, such a pathology is in-born and locked in the DNA and is NOT a gender-specific trait. It is biologically impossible for such an orientation to be more prevalent in males.

    The actual rates of sexual abuse committed by adults on children is not something many people have really studied dispassionately at all – the debate is owned by profiteering feminists, of course, hence the juked crime figures and men in prisons for crimes not committed – but it does seem that women commit more of it (and on boys, of course) but are not being reported, caught, or punished and their victims naturally find it almost impossible to be believed.

    Once some starts tackling this issue as they have with the subject of domestic violence – all real studies therein showing that such abuse is committed, or at least started, almost entirely by women, with men ‘fighting back’ in some instances – I genuinely suspect that female-perpetrated sexual assault, coercion and rape of young males will be seen for what it is: a hidden pandemic.

    Still, the legal system doesn’t make money from punishing women, so we can expect to see more men locked up instead. Go ‘patriarchy.’

  14. AJ where can i buy nolvadex online forum

    Any anaysis of real world data will has to make assumptions in order to progress at all. The important thing is that the assumptions are reasonable, as simple as possible and not chosen in order to achieve a desired outcome in the analysis. Ally’s points about assumptions of equal severity between men and women ar technically true but dishonest in the sense that he suggests no better replacement for the assumption. If he suggested an alternatie it could be plugged in and the effect seen he does not I suspect because he knows that no reasonable alternative would affect the analysis result in a qualatative way. This is the essence of ALly’s dishonesty the results show a massive disparity in the way men and women are treated post-conviction. If all of Ally’s criticisms are true, and they may well not be this result would not be affected at all.

    The more important observation is that the analysis is only post conviction. There are a lot of reasons to think that biases in the rate of conviction from the reporting of crime, to the probability of charging, the specific offences that are applied and the probability of conviction are all likely to have similar biases. I have no idea how to even start trying to analyse this numerically but the shocking thing that has slowly dawned on me is that if these factors are even close to the same impact as the post-conviction biases there is a chance that the entire disparity between the men and womens prison population is simply down to discrimination against men. It never even occured to me that this could be the case. I had always assumed as most do that men are mor eviolent an dmor elikely to offend bu another factor of 4 to 6 multiplied by a factor of 4 to 6 post conviction would mena that men are no more criminal than women. This is not in any sense evidence but makes an even stronger case that some real research should be done.

  15. Jeremy can you order nolvadex online

    In principle this is a valid objection. My simple broad-brush analysis takes no account of offending history, but judges will certainly take this into account in passing sentence

    No it isn’t.

    Your offending history is primarily determined by whether or not a court determined that you had offended, and what institutionalization you receive as a result of that. Jail time creates institutionalization in the people incarcerated regardless of gender. If women are incarcerated less, they are simply less likely to re-offend because they have spent less time behind bars and more time making social/business contacts and generally being self-enterprising for their own good.

    Jail time turns you into more of a criminal, because it surrounds you with criminals and gives you no possibility of networking with the outside, legitimate world and improving your situation once you’re out.

    Hence, it is a circular argument to simply say that offense history determines sentence, and therefore male sentences cannot be biased because they merely reflect on previous (magically) “unbiased” sentences. His argument there is entirely unsound. If the system is rotten, you can’t use past determination by the system to justify current conditions.

      1. Jeremy buy nolvadex astrazeneca

        What you seem to be saying is that, all things being equal… a person who has never been a criminal in his life is just as likely to commit any particular offense as someone who is a lifelong criminal. I’m fairly certain that’s observably false, though I confess there likely aren’t many actual situations where all other things are perfectly equal.

        1. Ally Fogg best place to buy nolvadex uk

          But the vast majority of offenders do not go to prison and the vast majority of people who have previously offended were not imprisoned as a result, so it is unlikely to be the brutalising effects of incarceration causing the effect.

          1. Jeremy best place to buy nolvadex online

            From above, your previous words:

            The first point (William Collins) misses is that the single biggest influence on whether a defendant is sent to prison (and for how long) is not their gender, or even the category of offence, but their offending history. Someone with 15 or more previous convictions is nearly five times as likely to receive a custodial sentence as someone with no previous convictions.

            So now you’re just contradicting yourself? Please explain how your immediately previous comment, and that clip from your prior rebuttal can both be true.

            Men are valued by their careers. Prison removes any possibility of a man learning to use his industry and thus improve his value in life. Hence, any convictions (that affect your career through background checks) or prison time affects the male ability to find a legitimate path in society far more than it affects women, and yet you’re willing to claim what you just tried to claim.

            I’m afraid I can’t take you seriously.

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            That’s largely because the prisons are overfilled already. Probation Services – now privatised – are sequestering bodies onto their books for profit, big time. Once new prisons are built, they will be filled again.

            This is not some conspiracy theory, it’s business. The Crown is a corporation of agencies and the Ministry of Justice (that word!) has remits.

  16. CitymanMichael best place to buy nolvadex in australia

    Another fantastic job here, William. Incisive, insightful, balanced, well researched. A real credit to you.
    Here is another statistic to make you think – killers of white women in the US get on average 14 times more prison time than killers of black men.
    Any person who has been looking at the gender gap in the UK knows anecdotally that women receive much more lenient sentences than men – we have not known the figures – until now.

  17. amibothered best website to buy nolvadex

    I don’t think Ally Fogg has disproved your assertions at all. He has taken the approach to have a good dig at you firstly and then try to fit the evidence to support his view of you.

    I normally regard Foggy as a fairly reliable source of sorting the wheat from the chaff, regarding evidence supporting a particular view. This time he has put his feelings before evidence and came up looking rather a chump.

    These comments from another poster on the Foggy blog are also rather pertinent, well before it gets to court the discrimination begins:

    ———————-

    “Most criminal cases are heard at magistrates courts after all, plus if the Police and CPS see that there is little or no point in prosecuting women because the Courts aregoing to be lenient with them, then the system breaks down in regards to women offenders and they are treated leniently and let off before they even get to the point of being prosecuted.

    It’s relatively old research you quoted but we have sustained campaigns from the likes of the Fawcett Society and MPs such as Simon Hughes (Justice Minister) who see women as needing preferential treatment when it comes to sentencing.

    So there is a mantra from government to the judiciary in the importance of treating women more leniently in relation to prison sentences, which filters down to the CPS, Police and others involved in criminal matters.

    Look at the pressures on the authorities to treat women differently:

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    It is a worsening problem of discrimination given that the government and campaign groups are consistently vociferous about reducing sentencing for women, despite the fact
    they are already treated leniently in comparison to men.

    The government and the judiciary have been sending out a message to the Police and CPS for many years, and also guidelines and instructions that women are to be treated differently throughout the process.

    So even before it gets to Court, women are treated far more leniently than men by those involved, including the Police and CPS. They are instructed to do so by government policy
    and the judiciary’s attitude to women offenders.

    With this attitude from atop, Police and even those reporting crime by females know very well that women will be treated leniently by the system and on top of this attitude there is the patronising and also the feminist attitude to treating women preferentially in society.

    This all helps to keep women out of the Courts in the first place, whereas men are processed by the system without the same consideration. Repeat offending rates of women are then of course going to be lower as the whole system tries to keep women out of the courts in the first place.

    It does tho demonstrate the lengths the authorities and campaign groups will go, to keep women out of prison, simply because they are women and mothers.

    Men and fathers on the other hand are afforded little or no such alternatives, support or the
    blind eye approach which is taken (to some extent) for females in comparison.

    That offending males are not treated throughout the process to the same standards as women offenders.”

    ———————————————–

    1. Ally Fogg buy nolvadex online bodybuilding

      Hi amibothered.

      As you should know, I do not dispute that there is gender bias against men at every stage in the criminal justice system. I have written about it extensively in the past, including in the Guardian and Independent.

      What I dispute is that William’s calculations – specifically that 5/6 men in prison (68,000) would not be there if men were sentenced to the same standards as women. That claim cannot be made on the basis of the available evidence.

      1. amibothered where can i buy nolvadex pct

        You may be right on that specific calculation, William Collins says he is not set in stone on this and is willing to be persuaded with evidence.

        I think the tone of your original post was unfortunate and not helpful in working towards finding the reality regarding different sentencing standards and approaches based on gender.

        Your previous work and your continued efforts regarding gender bias towards men and women, I applaud.

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